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	<title>Comments on: Customers Never Cease to Amaze Me</title>
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	<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/</link>
	<description>Musings of a Balding 29 Year Old Business Owner</description>
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		<title>By: Adam McFarland</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-4118</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam McFarland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-4118</guid>
		<description>Just a little update to all of this.  We had someone who we caught &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; trying to scam us today (not just save a few bucks, but manipulate the site to get unlimited stuff for free).  I&#039;m not going to go into the details because this is something that is pretty intelligent and could probably fool a lot of e-commerce systems (don&#039;t want to give people ideas...)  

We were able to study his browsing history on our site and determine that for months he was trying everything he could to find a loophole.  Once he finally found one, we had quite a bit of evidence to lay the hammer down and ban his account.  He violated several points of our ToS.  We refunded him the little money he spent with us and did not ship him any goods....and then of course fixed the loophole.

Obviously these people are out there and they&#039;ll stop at nothing to get cheap or free stuff.  It&#039;s sad to me, but it&#039;s reality. If you run an e-commerce store, the best advice I can give is to have several people looking at every single order with a critical eye.  Especially during the busy times.  And especially for international customers (this one was international, as was our large chargeback case).  All four of us are busy, but we all try to at least scan every order that comes through.  You&#039;d be amazed at what we catch sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a little update to all of this.  We had someone who we caught <em>really</em> trying to scam us today (not just save a few bucks, but manipulate the site to get unlimited stuff for free).  I&#8217;m not going to go into the details because this is something that is pretty intelligent and could probably fool a lot of e-commerce systems (don&#8217;t want to give people ideas&#8230;)  </p>
<p>We were able to study his browsing history on our site and determine that for months he was trying everything he could to find a loophole.  Once he finally found one, we had quite a bit of evidence to lay the hammer down and ban his account.  He violated several points of our ToS.  We refunded him the little money he spent with us and did not ship him any goods&#8230;.and then of course fixed the loophole.</p>
<p>Obviously these people are out there and they&#8217;ll stop at nothing to get cheap or free stuff.  It&#8217;s sad to me, but it&#8217;s reality. If you run an e-commerce store, the best advice I can give is to have several people looking at every single order with a critical eye.  Especially during the busy times.  And especially for international customers (this one was international, as was our large chargeback case).  All four of us are busy, but we all try to at least scan every order that comes through.  You&#8217;d be amazed at what we catch sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-4002</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-4002</guid>
		<description>Oh, one more, really important point:

It&#039;s just too damn easy and anonymous. That&#039;s why.

The same reason people download music illegally instead of paying for it on iTunes, Amazon, etc. It&#039;s just as easy, but it costs less/nothing. It&#039;s blatantly unethical, but it is proof that the online universe just makes these things too easy and too anonymous. After all, most people wouldn&#039;t steal CDs from a bricks-and-mortar store.

So, if a large percentage of people are willing to blatantly break not only ethics, but laws, to steal music online, it should be absolutely no surprise that they&#039;re willing to legally exploit a loophole at a random ecommerce site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, one more, really important point:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just too damn easy and anonymous. That&#8217;s why.</p>
<p>The same reason people download music illegally instead of paying for it on iTunes, Amazon, etc. It&#8217;s just as easy, but it costs less/nothing. It&#8217;s blatantly unethical, but it is proof that the online universe just makes these things too easy and too anonymous. After all, most people wouldn&#8217;t steal CDs from a bricks-and-mortar store.</p>
<p>So, if a large percentage of people are willing to blatantly break not only ethics, but laws, to steal music online, it should be absolutely no surprise that they&#8217;re willing to legally exploit a loophole at a random ecommerce site.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-4001</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-4001</guid>
		<description>I think what it really comes down to is that some people love getting a deal. I&#039;m one of them, quite honestly. It doesn&#039;t if you have an expensive car, or an expensive lifestyle. Many times, the smartest, richest people are only that way because they were conditioned to seek the best possible deal, all the time (spending/investing smart vs. working hard).

Someone mentioned Black Friday. That&#039;s a great example. People will use normal coupons in conjunction with an already heavily discounted doorbuster. Even though it&#039;s questionable and probably explicitly not allowed on the coupon, many retailers will just bite the bullet and allow purchases like that to go through. You can thank big retailers for allowing things like this to happen, and conditioning consumers that it&#039;s OK.

I think the big problem here is that when a business is online, it&#039;s hard to tell if they&#039;re a multinational, billion-dollar business, or a mom-and-pop shop with a few employees. When a new-ish customer goes to detailedimage.com, at least around the holiday/discount season, all they probably have in mind is getting what they want, cheap. They don&#039;t feel like they&#039;re ripping you off. For all they know, you&#039;re a huge organization, you&#039;re a low-price leader, and they&#039;re doing what they do everywhere else, which is taking advantage of a pretty standard loophole (must of us do it on our taxes, why not elsewhere, right?)

Lastly, although this practice was debatably unethical, it&#039;s not necessarily viewed by everyone as such. I find that the stores/sites I get (unethical) good deals from are also the same places I end up frequenting even when I can&#039;t manage to get any kind of deal at all. And mind you, 95% of the time, it&#039;s a pretty standard, non-discounted purchase. So who&#039;s the real winner?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what it really comes down to is that some people love getting a deal. I&#8217;m one of them, quite honestly. It doesn&#8217;t if you have an expensive car, or an expensive lifestyle. Many times, the smartest, richest people are only that way because they were conditioned to seek the best possible deal, all the time (spending/investing smart vs. working hard).</p>
<p>Someone mentioned Black Friday. That&#8217;s a great example. People will use normal coupons in conjunction with an already heavily discounted doorbuster. Even though it&#8217;s questionable and probably explicitly not allowed on the coupon, many retailers will just bite the bullet and allow purchases like that to go through. You can thank big retailers for allowing things like this to happen, and conditioning consumers that it&#8217;s OK.</p>
<p>I think the big problem here is that when a business is online, it&#8217;s hard to tell if they&#8217;re a multinational, billion-dollar business, or a mom-and-pop shop with a few employees. When a new-ish customer goes to detailedimage.com, at least around the holiday/discount season, all they probably have in mind is getting what they want, cheap. They don&#8217;t feel like they&#8217;re ripping you off. For all they know, you&#8217;re a huge organization, you&#8217;re a low-price leader, and they&#8217;re doing what they do everywhere else, which is taking advantage of a pretty standard loophole (must of us do it on our taxes, why not elsewhere, right?)</p>
<p>Lastly, although this practice was debatably unethical, it&#8217;s not necessarily viewed by everyone as such. I find that the stores/sites I get (unethical) good deals from are also the same places I end up frequenting even when I can&#8217;t manage to get any kind of deal at all. And mind you, 95% of the time, it&#8217;s a pretty standard, non-discounted purchase. So who&#8217;s the real winner?</p>
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		<title>By: nethy</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3887</link>
		<dc:creator>nethy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-3887</guid>
		<description>I wonder what UK law would say about customers failing to ship Amazon the books. Deal&#039;s a deal, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what UK law would say about customers failing to ship Amazon the books. Deal&#8217;s a deal, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam McFarland</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3870</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam McFarland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-3870</guid>
		<description>Yes I&#039;ve heard that story too.  I *believe* he mentions it in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hxX_Q5CnaA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I&#8217;ve heard that story too.  I *believe* he mentions it in this video <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hxX_Q5CnaA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hxX_Q5CnaA</a></p>
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		<title>By: nethy</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3860</link>
		<dc:creator>nethy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-3860</guid>
		<description>I think I remember some famous bug at amazon where a customer could enter a negative number of units, amazon would refund him the amount &amp; their inventory systems would await  delivery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I remember some famous bug at amazon where a customer could enter a negative number of units, amazon would refund him the amount &amp; their inventory systems would await  delivery.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam McFarland</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3844</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam McFarland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-3844</guid>
		<description>Hmm I think I know what I&#039;m getting my girlfriend now for Christmas...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm I think I know what I&#8217;m getting my girlfriend now for Christmas&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3840</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-3840</guid>
		<description>That is an interesting question. I know of a few and they&#039;re mostly just the online presence of bricks-and-mortar establishments that have built themselves a strong, trusted brand. There are still certain people who feel unsafe when shopping online and if they can associate an online store with a real-world presence they&#039;re happier to part with the dough, some of these companies know this and charge accordingly.

Another example are premium online shops (such as http://www.kikidm.com - possibly NSFW) which sells the same products (sex toys) as many other retailers but does so in a such a way as to appeal to the high-end market and possibly those who wouldn&#039;t be comfortable with a &quot;normal&quot; sex toy e-commerce store.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is an interesting question. I know of a few and they&#8217;re mostly just the online presence of bricks-and-mortar establishments that have built themselves a strong, trusted brand. There are still certain people who feel unsafe when shopping online and if they can associate an online store with a real-world presence they&#8217;re happier to part with the dough, some of these companies know this and charge accordingly.</p>
<p>Another example are premium online shops (such as <a href="http://www.kikidm.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.kikidm.com</a> &#8211; possibly NSFW) which sells the same products (sex toys) as many other retailers but does so in a such a way as to appeal to the high-end market and possibly those who wouldn&#8217;t be comfortable with a &#8220;normal&#8221; sex toy e-commerce store.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam McFarland</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3838</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam McFarland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-3838</guid>
		<description>You are totally correct.  For better or worse one of the ways we&#039;ve taken market share is by becoming the low cost leader on a lot of products.  Between that and the fact that we run more sales than our competitors (and more mini sales like our daily special or on Twitter/Facebook), we do attract a very price conscious consumer sometimes.  

Which makes me think of an interesting question - is there an e-commerce industry online that isn&#039;t driven primarily on price?  Meaning, is there a market leader that charges considerably higher but makes up for it in some other way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are totally correct.  For better or worse one of the ways we&#8217;ve taken market share is by becoming the low cost leader on a lot of products.  Between that and the fact that we run more sales than our competitors (and more mini sales like our daily special or on Twitter/Facebook), we do attract a very price conscious consumer sometimes.  </p>
<p>Which makes me think of an interesting question &#8211; is there an e-commerce industry online that isn&#8217;t driven primarily on price?  Meaning, is there a market leader that charges considerably higher but makes up for it in some other way?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/2009/11/14/customers-never-seize-to-amaze-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3836</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adam-mcfarland.net/?p=901#comment-3836</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that is out of line if it&#039;s specifically exluded in the promo restrictions page you reference - I guess just be glad you anticipated it and your system worked!

Surely the guy would have noticed that the gift certificate didn&#039;t have discount applied when he went to check out? If he didn&#039;t, that&#039;s odd because it&#039;s so obviously planned...

Another thing to take away from this is that you&#039;re clearly attracting at least one price-concious customer which leads me to belive you&#039;re the low-cost leader for that product. Shout about it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that is out of line if it&#8217;s specifically exluded in the promo restrictions page you reference &#8211; I guess just be glad you anticipated it and your system worked!</p>
<p>Surely the guy would have noticed that the gift certificate didn&#8217;t have discount applied when he went to check out? If he didn&#8217;t, that&#8217;s odd because it&#8217;s so obviously planned&#8230;</p>
<p>Another thing to take away from this is that you&#8217;re clearly attracting at least one price-concious customer which leads me to belive you&#8217;re the low-cost leader for that product. Shout about it!</p>
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